Eurail pass in Greece

Hi,

My wife and I are planning our 4-week European vacation in
July-August. We are going to Greece, Italy, Austria, and Germany.

I was looking to get us a Eurail Selectpass Saver
(http://www.raileurope.com/us/rail/pa...pass_saver.htm)
for 3 countries (Italy, Austria, and Germany) because our Greece
travel is limited to:
- ferry Athens - Paros
- ferry Paros - Athens
- train/bus Athens - Kalambaka/Meteora
- bus Kalambaka - Igoumenitsa (via Ioannina)
- ferry Igoumenitsa - Bari

But now I'm thinking whether I should get a 4 country pass instead. I
would like to find out:

1. For Igoumenitsa - Bari ferry, what does "free" mean in "free ferry
crossings from Patras and Igoumenitsa to Ancona and Bari (Italy)"
(http://www.raileurope.com/us/rail/pa...s/greece.htm)? Is
that on the deck? How much extra for 2 or 4 person cabin?
2. Are the buses covered under Eurail pass?
http://www.ktel.org/en/index.asp?
3. Least importantly: are any of the island ferries covered?

Thank you!

Vitaliy.

Henry Hooray wrote:

Well, as a long time sufferer..er passenger of Greek trains, I think I'm
entitled to my own views regarding this subject...

In general, Greek train fares are very low cost (so, it *may* be not
worth the cost of the 4th country Eurail pass - I don't know the
numbers, though), compared to the rest of the Europe.

If you want air-conditioning (rather necessary if you want to survive
the hot midday and you aren't used to hot days), well-cleaned and fast
enough trains, the InterCity trains are about the only option (both in
the Peloponnesos peninsula and the mainland Greece).

Peloponnesos:

In the narrow gauge Peloponnese network, there are plans to cut off the
Korinth-Athens segment (substituting it with double track standard
gauge), so if you want to experience the old route, you're adviced to do
it as soon as possible. There are some really
impressive places (e.g. Kakia Skala, near Megara) in this segment, which
would be quite an experience to see. Also, note that the famous rack
railway Diakopton-Kalavrita (near Patras/Aigion) is closed for at least
one year for heave reconstruction of the line, and I don't know if the
character of the line will be retained.

Also, note that there aren't air-conditioned trains in the really
dramatic route between Korinthos-Tripoli-Kalamata, and there are only
2-3 train pairs/day, but the scenery (I think) is worth it. In the
Athens-Kyparissia route, there are only one daily pair of
locomotive-hauled trains, with venerable American-built ALCos belching
prodigious amounts of noise and smoke that would satisfy even the most
hardcore railfan :-)

Mainland Greece:

Besides InterCity trains (ex-East German diesel multiple units), there
are various daily trains hauled by pretty fast diesel locomotives built
by Adtranz (now Bombardier). As of this time, there aren't any
air-conditioned rolling stock, but this may change by next year. The
trains in the Athens-Thessaloniki corridor are usually the best ones,
while there's a pair of night trains (504/505) which is very popular and
you can get your car piggybacked on bilevel wagons, at extra cost.
Unfortunately, the air-conditioned ex-TEN (Trans-Europa Nacht) coaches
are now under refurbishment, so you're stuck with ex-East German
couchette cars. About scenery, my vote goes to three parts of the route:
Tithorea-Bralos-Lianokladi-Domokos (impressive mountainous route,
especially near Lianokladi), Tempi valley which follows the Pinios river
north of Larissa (this part is scheduled to get bypassed by a new
double-track alignment at around September, so go as soon as possible),
and Nestos river valley, after Drama (north of Thessaloniki).

Hope this helps.

Regards from hot Athens,
Nick the ALCo-holic :-)

The most funniest tour by train we ever did in our live was from Patras to
Piraeus. We were told that this is Europe's (or the worlds's?) longest
narrow-gauge railroad. It took us about 5 hours while the bus needs only 3,
but it was invaluable!

As this trip took place quite some years ago (early nineties) I wonder
whether this train is still running. Every time we since travelled from
Patras to Piraeus (by car now) and vice versa I was looking for it but never
saw it again.

Regina
--
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress
can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
(Mahatma Gandhi)
As long as people massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed,
he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love.
(Pythagoras)

Regina Schmid wrote:

I don't think it's the longest metre-gauge railroad, even in Europe (if
you look at private Swiss routes, they have a rather extensive network).
And in Japan there's a big metre gauge network (don't know about
distances).

Of course, behind the smoke-belching ALCos you could spend nearly a day
doing the (old) Kalamata-Athens trip via Patras, and arrive in Athens
(or the reverse direction) more black than white-faced.... I suppose
that would be a great way to re-enact steam travel conditions ;-)

And I'm sure you found the whole experience rather "colourful", but I
don't think I would stand traveling regularly this way (I'm older too,
so this may be an added factor). For some photos of these locomotives
etc., I refer you to the European Railway Server relevant page:
http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/gr/...A9100/pix.html


Sad thing is, the Peloponnesos network is under neglect for decades
(which has resulted in very reduced frequencies), while the government
invest heavily in road infrastructure in the same areas. But "vox
populi, vox Dei"...

Anyway, http://railworld.topcities.com/timetables/index.html has the
current Peloponnesos timetable, scanned from the OSE booklet (the
official OSE site, http://www.ose.gr is "under construction" more than
half a year).

Regards from Athens, Greece,
Nick Fotis.

Nick Fotis <nfotis@softlab.ece.ntua.gr> wrote in article
<3EFAE492.6A6DA317@softlab.ece.ntua.gr>...

Has work on the new line already started? When should it be ready?


I sure hope so, very scenic line.


You mean these?
http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/gr/.../650/661-2.jpg

Are they ex-East German?

Regards,
David

Nick Fotis <nfotis@softlab.ece.ntua.gr> wrote in article
<3EFB1CD7.32F543BD@softlab.ece.ntua.gr>...

I think the narrow-gauge network in the north of Spain is Europe's
largest...

Based on numbers in the European railway stock list, the largest narrow
gauge network in Switzerland (RhB + MGB) is 526 km. The FEVE network in
Spain is 1267 km long. Is the EuskoTren network connected to the FEVE
network?

Regards,
David

David Eerdmans wrote:

They started more than half a decade ago. According to the latest
announcements, the Athens-Korinth double-track will be electrified too
(I didn't see any catenary poles yet, so I doubt it). The official line
is "the narrow gauge Athens-Korinthos is closed in September 2003, and
the Piraeus terminal will become the standard gauge terminal after an
extensive reconstruction, etc."

This, in effect, means the metre gauge line network will terminate at
Korinthos, and I wouldn't be too surprised if the traffic is reduced
even more by this. According to the latest official plans, the standard
gauge will reach Patras seaport by the end of the decade.


Well, there are some rumours they plan to alter drastically the route,
using typical German rolling stock instead of the small profile trains.
This does mean opening the tunnels, adding ballast (and making
impossible to use the route as a walking path) and making the bridges
more substantial.

We'll see how it pans.


Yes, these were built by AEG-LEW (OSE was their owner from the start),
and were considered some of the best DMUs built then. These did some
record runs (I think) in East German, and regularly keep their speed
here in Greece at 160 km/h (with some peaks of 170+ km/h). The common
people here when they think "passenger train", they mean "InterCity",
since the locomotive-hauled rolling stock is not up to the IC standards.

I hope this clarifies things.

Regards,
Nick Fotis.

Nick Fotis <nfotis@softlab.ece.ntua.gr> wrote in article
<3EFB3937.5377ACCE@softlab.ece.ntua.gr>...

[new line Athens - Korinthos]


So the old and the new line will have seperate stations? Weird... What
about freight traffic?


Oh, I only thought only Dutch mayors were fans of really expensive train
tunnels... And the city counsil of Goes (Zeeland, Netherlands) also wants
to remove the rails from their town and build a new station in the middle
of nowhere... I hope this won't become fashionable around Europe.

Another question about Greece: At Mercurio I saw some pictures of the first
OSE GTW2/6 set in Switzerland, is it already doing test runs in Greece?
IIRC further sets would be built at a Greek manufacturer (right?). Is the
first Greek GTW2/6 already delivered?

Regards,
David
follow-up to mtre

"Markus N. Giger" wrote:

Thanks for the correction.

Well, after losing the Athens-Korinthos segment, the Peloponnessos
network will become something like an 'O', without a real connection to
the outside world (and the Greek capital city, which was the main
traffic source/destination in the latest decades).

Regards,
Nick Fotis

> "Typical German rolling stock" ? You mean DMU's like Lint, Desiro, Talent

German? ...

GTW 2/6 is a Swiss development but many have been sold to
Germany and Stadler Rail has taken over a factory in Berlin
to produce the diesel version there.

But all electrics, narrow gauge, cogwheel-equipped are
built in Switzerland


Stadler is one of the few producers of cogwheel rolling stock.
GTW 2/6 is available for rack operation (Spanish FGC bought
some) but so far no diesel-rack-trainset has been built.


--
Markus, Gürbetal
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